“Bury My Heart at Pennsyltucky”
Poet Christopher Moore on his exciting new collection"Dark Edens", the challenges of being an academic inhabiting a sometimes reactionary setting, and Santayana's contention regarding those who who fail to remember the past being condemned to repeat it
We were privileged to have the opportunity to sit down with Le Spectre’s friend and frequent contributor, prolific poet, historian, and literary journal editor (of Misfit Quill fame) in his own right, good sir Christopher Moore, for an intimate discussion (socially distanced 983 miles) to pick his ripe young mind about his latest collection of potent, impactful poetry “Dark Edens” which he has been gracious enough to grace us with this spooky month. We explored his occasionally tense relationship with his area of residence and its occupants, the volatile political and economic climate our nation has been grappling with throughout this singular year, and how he reconciles such difficulties and still finds the motivation and wherewithal to create stunning and significant poems, how he’s channelled these often turbulent influences into his expansive body of work.
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Le Spectre: Dark Edens is without a doubt your grimmest, most intense collection of poetry to date, and seems especially apropos to be dropping in the midst of the Coronavirus epidemic and the ugliest election in our lifetime. You describe the present situation quite well in your preface. How do you personally manage to soldier on each day, when “nothing makes sense, and those crying out for answers or salvation do not always get helped most times”?
Chris Moore: I honestly do not know how I “soldier on”, as you so greatly put it. The ugliness of this horrible time we are in also collided with a horrible personal year for me both last year and earlier this year, things did not start taking a turn for the good in my personal life until July 2020. I see at the end, you quoted a sentence from the introduction of my book Dark Edens, I mentioned that in the introduction because there have been times in my life where nothing does make sense anymore and no matter how much help I try to get, I realize that I really have to help myself in order to make myself feel better. I also think I manage to soldier on because I often find little antidotes to help me along in life, listening to music, watching funny videos, etc. to help me forget current horror situations. Talking with many friends and family members though, I have discovered I was not the only one going through horrible times with little to no help, so that quote from the introduction you mention is also because in my life, I have seen people worse off than myself get no help, but manager to soldier on.
Le Spectre: The first poem in your newest book, 'Forbidden Fruit' (a personal favorite of mine we had the privilege of sharing in an earlier issue of our journal, incidentally!) makes me think of one of Malcolm X’s most useful quotations: “Don't be in a hurry to condemn because he doesn't do what you do or think as you think or as fast. There was a time when you didn't know what you know today.”
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You acknowledge shortly thereafter how ignorance is famously blissful, while awareness conversely can become an excruciating ordeal. As people all across the political spectrum explore more theory, broaden their minds and engage with ideas and facts which thrust their entire conception of the world into startling disarray, how can we well intended fighting the good fights best support them and welcome them into the fold inclusively, and assist with navigating the pains and vexations of cognitive dissonance such paradigm shifting invariably gives rise to?
Chris Moore: I think you might have misunderstood the poem; it is not the first time my poetry has been thought up as political resistance when it is not about that. “Forbidden Fruit” is a personal poem about temptation, wearing rose colored glasses and not taking them off and realizing something is horrible until it is too late. What inspired me to write the poem was a girl I use to date in 2014/2015, the first girl I ever dated in my mid-20’s as a matter of fact. She had kept many secrets and lies from me, even not telling me why she was arrested once. The forbidden fruit in “Forbidden Fruit” is more of a personal realization after eating the what I call fruit of knowledge, it makes you take off the rose colored glasses and realize that everything you thought was perfect was just an illusion and if you keep focusing on the good things in life all the time, you sometimes miss the horrors of reality that are standing right in front of you. I often times in my poetry, especially if the poem is about someone personal in my life I know or have known, leave little clues for those who only know my journey would understand, mostly to save myself from people coming after me legally because of “hurt feelings”. As mentioned above, it is not the first time one of my poems has been mistaken for political resistance when it really isn’t, back when I use to submit poems to a literary magazine in my former community college, some of the student editors thought my poems were about political resistance, when they really were more of a personal nature than making any kind of political/social justice statement.
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Chiris Moore: I do not see it as a societal New Dark Ages, while I do question humanity’s sanity and judgement at many times of my life, I do not see us entering a new dark age. Yes, I do have an extensive knowledge of history because I myself and a history major, specializing in 19th century American history, mostly the American Civil War through the Gilded Age at the end of the 1800s. The reason why I use the term “New Dark Ages” is more of an intellectual sense than a political/societal sense. I have been blessed with knowing a vast knowledge of history. I once read something that while those who forget history are doomed to repeat it, those who know and understand history unfortunately have to sit by and be horrified as the ignorant repeat history. I am part of a school of historians who believe there are no “accidents” in history and that it does have a tendency to repeat itself in one way or another, maybe not exact, but there are similarities in some cases. I honestly do not see how my vast knowledge in US Civil War history will save humanity, unless we go into an American Civil War 2, which would not surprise me, I equate American cities creating “autonomous zones” over the summer no different than the southern states seceding from the Union because “boohoo, Lincoln won”. Only difference is, it did not escalate to an actual civil war, yet that is.
Le Spectre: In ‘Double Take’ we find a familiar specter which has haunted so much of your earlier writings returning, of fundamentalist conservative hypocrisy. You allude to tendencies of judging and persecuting whilst completely ignoring and flying in the face of the ideals and theories people are ostensibly supporting in so doing. This seems to run parallel to another potent symbol your poems frequently revile and take umbrage at, the confederate flag. As an educated, progressive person in the Pennsylvania/Kentucky area, engaging with many more reactionary and traditional types on a daily basis, how can we best extend the olive branch throughout the course of our everyday lives, in an effort reconcile our nation’s (and for many, their faith’s) imperfect past with citizens’ intentions to usher in a brighter future?
Chris Moore: Double Take” was actually inspired because of the “two-faced” Christians I had to deal with in my area of “Pennsyltucky”. I have in my life, especially in my early 20s, those in my area who say they follow the values of Christ and mercy, easily grow metaphorical horns and would gladly trade someone in for 40 pieces of metaphysical silver just like the Judas they hate. Yes, sadly in my rural area of Pennsylvania, the Confederate flag is not uncommon to see. I actually know a house in my area that has a big Confederate flag flying next to a house that proudly flies the LGBTQ+ flag. Personally, I believe that mentioning your political leanings today can be dangerous no matter what side of the isle you are on. I myself have both conservative AND liberal views on things depending on the topic, but won’t get too much into politics.
Le Spectre: In ‘Seventh Seal’ you speak of idols being torn down, that preceding the world’s descent into darkness. But is it also possible that such an action could feasibly represent a first step towards an age of reason and light? Xafae Halfhide once counseled people to "Kill your heroes, your idols, and your stars...then take their place." Carl Jung recommended something similar. You talk elsewhere of “urban emperors fiddling near the fires”. Whether it’s #MeToo canceling of celebrities or statues of slave-owning presidents being cast into the ocean, is there a chance beyond the tumult a better world awaits on the other end of this dramatic revolutionary tunnel we’re entering?
Chris Moore: In “Seventh Seal”, I do speak of idols being torn down. I speak of this in a metaphorical sense, not in a literal sense though. “Seventh Seal” gives an apocalyptic vision and the poem is stating that noting can truly save us in the end from eventual doom. No amount of praying, no salvation, nothing. I believe we all die eventually and I even believe somewhat in reincarnation, so I do not really believe in the “trappings” of modern religions. The urban emperor line I am actually declining to answer, I can tell you this, it is not referencing who you think it is referencing. While I am all for taking down Confederate statues, I am not for destroying history. I recently saw a statue taking down of someone who SUPPORTED African American rights and it pissed me off, people’s lack of historical knowledge sickens me. Lincoln and Teddy Roosevelt shouldn’t have been taken down, President Woodrow Wilson supported the Klan, you don’t see any statues of him being taken down. Plus taking down the statues doesn’t really change the history. History does not care about your feelings, what happened happened and there is nothing you can do about that.
Le Spectre: On a related note, your next collection is specifically focused on revolutions throughout history I recall? Please tell us about that, and how the current unrest and fervor for social justice, our nation and the world taking to the streets to demand change, has been influencing your work and your life? Have you been involved in any activism yourself in recent months?
Chris Moore: I have actually changed the title of my next book actually. I know I showed you “Poetic Revolutionaries”, but since then I have updated the title of that collection. Back in 2018, I published my first poetry book called “Poetic Timeline: History Through Poetic Verse”. I have always wanted to create a volume 2, but never had the time to. The new title is called “Like Devils They Came: Poetic Timeline Vol. 2”, the title coming from a Civil War quote from a Georgian woman who described Sherman’s troops as devils descending upon Georgia during his march to the sea in 1864. No, I have not been involved in any activism in recent months, I am still trying to repair my life together after several years of disarray, last thing I need at this time is to help “stir the pot”. My main focus at this moment is helping my family and working on my educational goals.
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Le Spectre: 'Ashes of Paradise’ finds an emperor coughing and struggling to dig himself out of an ash heap. That seems like about the best image a person could imagine to describe 2020, politically and economically, and our leadership. How have Covid and the Trump administration informed your poetry and influenced your personal life?
Chris Moore: I would like to decline to answer this, while the reaction to the COVID-19 pandemic has inspired a few of my poems, the Trump Administration has not inspired any of my poetry believe it or not. I am actually not far left nor far right. While some of my poetry does hint at the horrors of society, it is not supporting nor denouncing one political ideology or another. I try my best to keep politics out of my poetry at all cost. Personally, I do not care for either Republicans or Democrats, it’s the same merry-go-round to me. I have conservative views the most hard-core liberals would hate me for and I also have liberal views the most hard-core conservatives would hate me for, hence why I feel uncomfortable in answering this question.
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Le Spectre: A striking image and symbol which recurs throughout Dark Eden, quite understandably, is the apple. In the context of this collection, what does that biblical forbidden fruit mean to you personally?
Chris Moore: The biblical forbidden fruit, and I believe I hinted at this in an earlier question, is more of a symbolism in my poems than the actual thing. To me personally, the biblical forbidden fruit represents the fear of temptation, wanting something you think you want, only to realize the unknown horrors in your decisions.
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Le Spectre: In ‘My Armageddon’ you quite memorably explore a populace coming to terms with help not foreseeably coming (again, as described in your excellent preface), ever arriving or even being dispatched. It has a very ‘Waiting for Godot’ feel to it. “Rains fall on a depressed land that just had the epiphany there will be no messiah.” Truly love that. The question it begs, though, is if we objectively cannot count on our politicians, our media, our bosses, our landlords, those who have consolidated all the resources to act in humanity’s greater interests, to support the survival of our species and the planet we reside upon, how in your mind can be best organize ourselves towards achieving desperately needed ends amidst this chaos?
Chris Moore: “Waiting for Godot” is actually a favorite play of mine, love Samuel Beckett, but “My Armageddon” was not inspired by it. There are more poems inspired by Irish poet William Butler Yeats, who is one of my favorite poets. Yes, I point out in that line that those who are waiting for a messiah or a second coming are just wasting their time. I personally do not think we should have anyone acting upon humanity’s greater interests, I believe it is up to the individual themselves to consider that. To answer your other question, I am all for helping and bettering the environment, I do not want to go too far green though, I believe there is a happy middle ground. While it is true humanity is destroying everything, that is definitely a fact, I do not think doing a complete 180 will change the issues. “My Armageddon” is more of a personal poem, the majority of my poetry is written more personally, although it might not sound that way.
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Le Spectre: One of my favorite poems in this collection is ‘False Messiahs’. I’m sure it can be interpreted a number of ways, but to me it seemed to really speak towards a rejection of leaders, electoral politics, hierarchies, a mistrust of alleged savior figures. This is a quite healthy approach to foster and promote. Tendencies to forgive powerful people’s abuses in the interest of unifying parties results in the same lesser-evilest ratchet-effect that for generations has been pushing our nation’s policies the wrong direction toward devastating outcomes. In your opinion, how can we convince our countrymen to break free from the partisan charade and hold our leaders (and ourselves) accountable and demand higher standards from them?
Chris Moore: Your interpretation of my poem “False Messiahs” is completely wrong, I am sorry to have to tell you this, it is NOT about politics. “False Messiahs” is actually a personal poem about females I have had crushes on in the past. I call them false messiahs because I thought creating a relationship would bring me true happiness and thought wrong, especially thought wrong with one in particular. The last line, “tread lightly, for you never know who might be a demon”, means you never know which ones are out to use you and do not really love you like you thought they did.
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Le Spectre: What other upcoming writing projects can our readers look forward to seeing from you in the not so distant future?
Chris Moore: I have several writing projects planned for the not so distant future. The closest is a small book of holiday poems I am publishing in December 2020 called Heard the Bells, which might be out the first or second full week of December 2020. Another future project is Like Devils They Came: Poetic Timeline Vol. 2, which will be my second collection of history poems, a continuation of a book titled Poetic Timeline: History Through Poetic Verse, written back in June 2018. The volume 2 will be coming out most likely in Spring 2021, maybe between February and May 2021. Another upcoming project is not a poetry collection, but a historical fiction mystery novel I am writing. I am currently writing a historical mystery novel titled Le Rebel Rougue: Redemption in Paris. It is going to be set in 1880s America and France where the main character, Detective Allister, is sent to both Baton Rougue, Louisiana and Paris, France to stop the re-emergence of the Paris Commune in France and the Confederacy in the American south, both trying to find their common and racist interests. I only have two chapters of the book completed at the time of this interview, so if I had to guess, Le Rebel Rougue should most likely be released sometime between 2021 and 2024, it is a full-length novel after all, it is not like writing a batch of already written poems for a quick publication. Also have another one I am thinking of writing down the road as well, another poetry collection. Thinking of titling it “Not in Pennsylvania Anymore”, parody of the Wizard of Oz line “I don’t think we’re in Kansas anymore”, but this is just a working title, might change it to something else. The book would just be a bunch of random poems with no specific theme possibly. If I were to do that one, since is it a poetry collection, it will probably be out before Le Rebel Rougue because as mentioned before, writing a batch of poems is easy, writing a mystery novel, that takes longer. Heard the Bells and Like Devils They Came will both definitely be out way before I do Le Rebel Rougue or the other poetry collection that is currently just a thought in my head at the moment.
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